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Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

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Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by CheenaGringo on Wed May 21, 2014 9:42 pm

In May of 2013, E-Raq was bitten by a Brown Recluse Spider on the foot. Statement made by E-Raq in an email to me:
"Yes indeed, was bitten in May sometime. Not one doctor was able to diagnose the problem, including the hospital who said I was 100% healthy. Finally Doc Lastra came up with an answer after about a month. This is definitely something you do not want to get bitten by. The pain is worse than having a baby."

In subsequent emails, I received numerous updates on the lack of progress being made in dealing with this bite. To be candid, my of us have read E-Raq's somewhat different ideas on self diagnosing and self medicating but for a good part of this process, she did put herself in the hands of various medical doctors. Just when it appeared that progress was being made on finally getting the wound to heal, she developed some sort of blockage in an artery in the same foot and a vascular surgeon scheduled surgery at San Francisco de Asis Hospital on Monday, May 5th.

Since she had expected the surgery to require a single night's stay at the hospital and when I hadn't heard from her by the following weekend, I sent her an inquiry on how things went. On May 11th, I received the following from her husband (in the interest of accuracy, I am quoting him word for word):
"Hi Neil,

This is coming from Bill.

Sadly, it did not go well. As the result of what I consider to be a monumental fuck up by her "friendly" vascular guy, Jane has been in Intensive Care at IMSS Medico Centro since last Tuesday fighting for her life. It is still very much in doubt.

I could give you a lot of crap details but suffice it to say that in a matter of a few hours after surgery at the San Francisco de Asis hospital she stared leaking blood into her abdomen at an appalling rate. Her blood pressure dropped though the floor, she couldn't breathe and lost consciousness. She was going into massive hemorrhagic shock. The original guy came back in to the hospital, by this time it was about 3 am, but he couldn't do much. We then decided to transfer her to IMSS - had to do it using the specialist AirVac ambulance people because by this time she had a breathing tube down her throat and all kinds of drips.

By the time she got to IMSS she had almost gone. They did a magnificent job and threw everything at the situation. First she had to go straight to emergency surgery to stop the bleeding. By this time she had lost about 3 litres of blood - this will often kill you, as you only have 5.6 litres. They were then able to stabilize her. Since then she has been continuously on a ventilator machine. At the same time, because her kidneys had shut down completely, she has been on a dialysis machine continuously, plus all kinds of drips and stuff. At one point they felt that they would have to amputate her leg because there was still buggar all blood flow and the toxins being created were inhibiting the effects of the dialysis machine - later they changed their minds.

She has been heavily sedated since she got to IMSS. Tomorrow, they want to bring her out of it and check her neurological state. They did do an ultrasound on her brain and believe that she may not have any damage there.

Meanwhile, my poor Jane is still in a very critical situation. Please feel free to tell others as I don't know all the people she communicates with on the various boards, etc.

Bill

PS Whatever some people say about IMSS, I believe they have made every conceivable effort to save this Gringo lady."

On May 12th, I received the following:
"Hi Neil,

Just got in. They tested Jane's lungs today and found some hospital induced pneumonia in her left lung. They are not too concerned because they caught it early. It does mean, though, that they will wait a few days before any resuscitation.

With regard to her leg, I talked to the surgeon who was going to do the amputation. He told me that they took time to recheck the blood flow, only because there were a few ultra important demands ahead of her. So, it seems she still has some luck left.

She is now on intermittent rather than continuous dialysis. This is a good sign, along with other improved stats. But, as you say, we still have to wait to see how she comes out of the sedation. Still, taking into account her age and "lifestyle", her recovery from the jaws has been amazing.

Thank you all for your kind thoughts.

Bill"

Then on May 20th, I received this:
"Hi Neil,

No bother at all. Thankfully, it looks like she is beating the odds. The pneumonia has almost gone. They did a tracheotomy on her so that they could remove the breathing tube. However, it is still connected to a ventilator for oxygen. She is slowly coming out of the induced coma and appears to recognize me. She gave me her greatest present yesterday with a couple of smiles.

She looks pretty beaten up and will need some plastic surgery on her left hand which suffered badly from the original blood deprivation. She will probably also lose a big toe, and where the spider bit her looks a mess too. But that is better than losing her whole leg.

It appears that it is all going to take some time, but she is a tough one.

I'll let you know every few days how things are going.

Cheers

Bill"

Obviously, I have procrastinated or hesitated posting all this info but at the urging of Lady O and Gringal, I am posting in the hopes that it will be a warning and a learning experience of just what can happen when one of these nasty critters bites you. Meanwhile I might suggest that positive thoughts for both E-Rag and her husband are in order as they are not out of the woods as yet!

CheenaGringo
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Wed May 21, 2014 9:55 pm

Thank you, Cheena.
As I told you, I think it is important for people to be aware of just how south things can go even with something like a spider bite. Also, there are people who would want to know what has happened to her and pass on their good wishes.
I was not on this board very long when E-Raq stopped posting, but I had enjoyed her writing during that time. I am sending best wishes her and Bill´s way.
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by espíritu del lago on Thu May 22, 2014 5:49 am

Regard and God speed. .
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by CheenaGringo on Thu May 22, 2014 10:11 am

As a followup, when a friend was bitten here in the US a few years back, I ran across this site:
http://www.brown-recluse-spider.com/

In their distribution & habitat section, they make the following statement: "In Mexico, the Brown Recluse Spider tends to hang around the border, and does not extend too far south into the country."
" />

Seems that these spiders haven't studied up on where they are supposed to hang out!

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by kipissippi on Thu May 22, 2014 11:25 am

OMG!  I'm so sorry this has happened to her.  She's a pistol....which will probably work in her favor beating this thing.

I've been living with the nasty little buggers for 16 years and never had a problem...which means absolutely nothing.  It just takes one time of not shaking out a shirt or shoes for tragedy to strike.  They're a very shy non aggressive creature...but if it's getting mashed between clothing and your skin or your bare foot and your shoe... the outcome is not good.  

I set out the sticky traps..positive that we were being overrun with them... not the case.  Caught a couple.  The cats alert us to any they can't reach...evidently taking care of the ones they can reach on their own.  GO KITTIES!!!!

What happened to Jane is a good "heads up" for all of us.  Be aware of what you're doing.  99 % of the time nothing will happen if you let down your guard...it's that damned one percent that's gonna' getcha.  The usual scorpion precautions should keep you safe.

In Portland a gal was bitten by one...turns out she'd just returned from Texas and the venomous little beast had hitchhiked in her suitcase.  So... they can show up anywhere.

Get well soon kiddo.  Please keep us in the loop.

Huge cyber hug,

Kip
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by brigitte on Thu May 22, 2014 11:53 am

Her recovery although slow is really encouraging, she is a tough broad and I hope she comes through soon. What a horror story for Bill and for her.
All of our best wishes for a good recovery to both of them.

I have heard that the Brown recluse can be found here and there as they travel with people´s belongings but there are not usually found that far south..I think that it is really scary.
Please keep us informed Neil. Thanks for the update.

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by CheenaGringo on Thu May 22, 2014 12:03 pm

The other person I know that was bitten was nailed on his back while in bed. Since he thinks he remembers folding back the bedding before climbing in, his contention was that the spider was "reclusing" where the bedding was tucked in on the back side of the bed. In his case, the wound took a couple of days to fully develop and cause him enough discomfort to actually check out his back in the mirror. He was lucky in that his doctor had prior experience with these bites and knew what to do. My guess is that finding a knowledgeable and/or experienced doctor in an area with few of these critters may be problematic?

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by brigitte on Thu May 22, 2014 5:23 pm

Yes but tht was in Texas where they are common Here they were not until some showed up.

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Thu May 22, 2014 7:16 pm

So we did not have them until we had them.  Very Happy 
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by SunshineyDay on Thu May 22, 2014 7:33 pm

Yep!

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by elbelgicano on Thu May 22, 2014 9:12 pm

Does anybody happen to know the name of this spider here in Mexico ? Googling, I get difference answers, depending on their habitat. Useful to be able to communicate that, in case of a bite.
Thanks,
Rony
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by mattoleriver on Thu May 22, 2014 10:52 pm

If this all happened a year ago how is she now? Any permanent effects?

George
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by CheenaGringo on Thu May 22, 2014 10:58 pm

George:

Certainly the bite was a bit over a year ago but if you read my OP, the notes from her husband Bill are current and ongoing as we speak.

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by SunshineyDay on Fri May 23, 2014 7:22 am

Dryer sheets are effective for keeping spiders out of areas such as closets etc.

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Fri May 23, 2014 9:59 am

Here is the best article I found for dealing with spiders without using poisons.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8336403_eliminate-spiders-naturally.html
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by CheenaGringo on Fri May 23, 2014 10:22 am

Do they sell chestnuts at SuperLake? I would think that the chestnuts laying around in all the recommended places would provide excellent playthings for the dogs and cats.

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Fri May 23, 2014 10:27 am

Yeah. I am passing on the chestnuts due to lack of availabilty and the dog who would chew on them and the cats who would bat them around. The dog might also swallow one and require emergency surgery. Silly girl.
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E-Raq Bite

Post by Dr. Sam Thelin on Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:20 pm

Very interesting about the "not one doctor" part.  Add to that the fact that almost no one actually sees a spider bite them, so the evidence is limited to the symptoms after the fact.

I assume she did not go to C.R.I.A.T. were they have more experience than anyone around. Phone: 33 3669 1338
   AVENIDA LOS ANGELES (ESQUINA CALLE ANALCO)
   Guadalajara

This is on a new server, and not all the images are available yet, but it has some basic spider information.
http://drsamchapala.com/wp/?page_id=27

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by Ms.Thang on Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:14 am

elbelgicano wrote:Does anybody happen to know the name of this spider here in Mexico ?  Googling, I get difference answers, depending on their habitat.  Useful to be able to communicate that, in case of a bite.
Thanks,
Rony

Mr. Thang says they are called araña “violinista " . What else are they called here? I've never seen one, I came across a lot of Black,Widows in my barn but have never been bitten.

What an awful thing to happen to Raq...

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by CheenaGringo on Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:31 am

"I assume she did not go to C.R.I.A.T. were they have more experience than anyone around. Phone: 33 3669 1338
AVENIDA LOS ANGELES (ESQUINA CALLE ANALCO)
Guadalajara"


In all my years of following this and various other forums - I don't believe I have ever seen C.R.I.A.T mentioned. It might be more helpful to people if they had a complete address to work from. All my efforts using Google Maps or Google Search have failed.

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by Dr. Sam Thelin on Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:24 am

CheenaGringo wrote:"I assume she did not go to C.R.I.A.T. were they have more experience than anyone around. Phone: 33 3669 1338
  AVENIDA LOS ANGELES (ESQUINA CALLE ANALCO)
  Guadalajara"


In all my years of following this and various other forums - I don't believe I have ever seen C.R.I.A.T mentioned.  It might be more helpful to people if they had a complete address to work from.  All my efforts using Google Maps or Google Search have failed.

Hmmm. I have mentioned it here when I wrote about emergencies here about a year ago. The search feature here does not find the old posts, but I do have the information here (C.R.I.A.T. is at the bottom of the page):       http://drsamchapala.com/wp/?page_id=42

https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/17/99/63/81/criat111.jpg

https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/17/99/63/81/criat210.jpg

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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by elbelgicano on Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:11 pm

Dr. Sam Thelin wrote:
CheenaGringo wrote:"I assume she did not go to C.R.I.A.T. were they have more experience than anyone around. Phone: 33 3669 1338
  AVENIDA LOS ANGELES (ESQUINA CALLE ANALCO)
  Guadalajara"


In all my years of following this and various other forums - I don't believe I have ever seen C.R.I.A.T mentioned.  It might be more helpful to people if they had a complete address to work from.  All my efforts using Google Maps or Google Search have failed.

Hmmm. I have mentioned it here when I wrote about emergencies here about a year ago. The search feature here does not find the old posts, but I do have the information here (C.R.I.A.T. is at the bottom of the page):       http://drsamchapala.com/wp/?page_id=42

https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/17/99/63/81/criat111.jpg

I have read your page about emergencies and still have one question.
What if you directly want to go to a private hospital in Guadalajara and you need to get there fast.... will and can a Cruz Roja ambulance take you there directly, from your home to that hospital (without going to the Red Cross and without hassle), if you pay for the ambulance service ofcourse. If so, how much would the price for that transfer be (more or less) ?

Thanks for the info.
Rony

https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/17/99/63/81/criat210.jpg
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by elbelgicano on Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:12 pm

Dr. Sam,

I have read your page about emergencies and still have one question.
What if you directly want to go to a private hospital in Guadalajara and you need to get there fast.... will and can a Cruz Roja ambulance take you there directly, from your home to that hospital (without going to the Red Cross and without hassle), if you pay for the ambulance service ofcourse. If so, how much would the price for that transfer be (more or less) ?

Thanks for the info.
Rony
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by Dr. Sam Thelin on Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:49 pm

elbelgicano wrote:Dr. Sam,

I have read your page about emergencies and still have one question.
What if you directly want to go to a private hospital in Guadalajara and you need to get there fast.... will and can a Cruz Roja ambulance take you there directly, from your home to that hospital (without going to the Red Cross and without hassle), if you pay for the ambulance service ofcourse. If so, how much would the price for that transfer be (more or less) ?

Thanks for the info.
Rony

Hello Rony,

Can they take you directly, and quickly? Yes. Will they? That depends on who is working.

The last price I heard was $2800 mxn for a trip to Guadalajara, but there is no written fee. There is also no guarantee about the hassle part. The EMTs have become very "unpredictable" lately.

Dr. Sam Thelin
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Re: Brown Recluse Spider Bite something to be learned from E-Raq

Post by Pedro on Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:03 pm

who is medically in charge at cruz roja now?
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