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Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

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Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Clueless on Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:59 pm

I am not understanding why a Fracc can't put a lien on a piece of property that is behind in paying dues, and after a certain point, sell the property.

Is there no such civil law in place for Fraccs?

Apparently the laws of Jalisco say even if you don't join the association as a member, you still have to pay the dues. Is this right?


How about the Fracc taking the owner to court, getting a judgment and then executing on the judgment by selling the property? You know how this works NOB, especially in California.

I have asked these Qs of every BOD for the last five-years and could never get a straight answer.

Thanks.

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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Intercasa on Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:13 pm

It is a complicated issue. It boils down to statutes of limitations and the rights of an AC to collect for services which they can only due with the proper municipal contracts where really the municipality should provide services but cannot and the contracts are poorly written or expired so the legal ability to collect is impaired and thus the ACs can do little legally. Condos have a statutory right to collect but with ACs it boils down to who will spend the most time and money to win. Attorneys always win, parties dont.
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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by slainte39 on Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:42 pm

There you go, deep pockets......... lol!

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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:01 pm

slainte39 wrote:There you go, deep pockets......... lol!

"It's not the money. It's the principal." ~ Somebody Who Will Sue Anyone For Any (Or No) Reason
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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Clueless on Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:17 pm

Thanks.

Also love the "ignore" feature of this board, especially for the last two posters.
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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by slainte39 on Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:01 pm

Clueless wrote:Thanks.

Also love the "ignore" feature of this board, especially for the last two posters.

You really know how to hurt my FEELINGS......but no hard FEELINGS.....from me.

Say, you didn't mean it.

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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by SunFan on Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:23 am

Fracs (A.C.s) are limited by Mexican courts to recovering only the past 2 years of debt. With the legal cost and effort this makes suing for past due water and maintenance fees a wash.

It has been done simply as a wakeup call to other morosos

I speak as the former treasurer of a frac that has spent significant effort and tens of thousands of pesos in legal fees on this subject.

It has always amazed me that there is no apparent interest in a Lakeside-wide association of fracs that could co-ordinate efforts on issues of common interest like the collection of overdue A.C. fees or enforcement of bylaws and regulations.

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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Halfglass on Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:42 am

Thought I would add this to the post. Check out the news page on our new site. You will see that they are working to collect back fees.

https://www.chapala-haciendas.com/
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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by CanuckBob on Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:18 am

Wow....there is over 10% of the residents in default. Any idea how many of those are abandoned or empty and for sale?

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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Clueless on Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:26 am

Take a look at my idea for an amendment to the By Laws.

I didn't know the Statue of Limitations is two years; but that seems for some, so much more reason to not pay (interest free "loan." that may never have to be paid back).

I would like input on my idea for "foreclosure" on property where dues are not paid.

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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by SunFan on Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:32 pm

Foreclosure was an avenue we pursued but our constitution prohibits ownership of property by the association. Check yours.

The prohibition constrains the opportunity for "adverse possession" by the association.

We also briefly examined re-incorporation as a condominium to tighten enforcement of bylaws. Not feasible.

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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Intercasa on Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:03 am

It is a mess. A suit to collect is like any suit and you need to review papers and present them all in certified copies as well as be prepared for a 2 to 3 year ordeal. Many fraccs are irregular as their papers havent been in order for a number of reasons and they dont want to spend money to do it right as it would mean raising fees, new contracts with the municipality, etc. So then attorneys offer to go after the bad guys and collect 5 years or 10 years of back fees and they will ask for attorney fees, just give them an advance of $20,000 pesos.

In an average suit if the fees are $2,000 pesos a month, you can only collect 2 years, even assuming ALL papers are in order, so you are looking at collecting $48,000 pesos and then as you asked for 5 and didnt get that then you wont get a fee award even if you win. Even if you ask for 2 and get 2, attorney fees are 25% or $12,000 pesos for 2+ years of litigation. No good attorney will work for free, only bad ones or ones who will take money, do a shoddy complaint and then not do much follow up on the case and pray for the best. I have seen case files as thick as a New york City phone book and attorney fees awarded only a few thousand pesos and this was after appeals.

Many ACs need to get things done right now and then they can collect in the future. Problem is that many politicians in the past made sweatheart deals allowing developement where the municipality had no ability to provide the municipal services required under law so the developers promised to provide them under an AC but didnt have the proper contracts or concessions and this has been further exacerbated by foreigners running Mexican ACs like NOB entities and trying to cut corners all the while drifting farther away from compliance with Mexican law and requirements.
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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Trailrunner on Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:29 am

Can open, worms everywhere!
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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Clueless on Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:02 pm

I certainly have been educated.

Some of it I knew; some of it I was reasonably sure of and some of it was new to me, specifically the Statute of limitations.

I have a vague recollection that in order to buy/sell a piece of property in a fracc, the notorio (and/or government) needs some kind of certification from the fracc that all dues are paid current, and any assessments, etc.

I'm still wondering why interest isn't being charged vy a change in the By laws. This is where my original subject header came in.
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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by slainte39 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:59 pm

Clueless wrote:

I have a vague recollection that in order to buy/sell a piece of property in a fracc, the notorio (and/or government) needs  some kind of certification from the fracc that all dues are paid current, and any assessments, etc.

It's the buyer, not the government that needs proof of this, as they will be responsible if they let the seller slide by without getting documentation that all dues and fees are current.  The Notario Publico will not stop a transfer of property just because fracc. or condo fees are not paid up to date.
Buyer protect yourself.....now if a gravamen has been issued and registered, that's a different story.

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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by CanuckBob on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:10 pm

What is a gravamen? A lien?

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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

Post by Intercasa on Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:26 pm

Yes a lien
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Re: Question, probably for Spencer (or anyone else who actually knows)

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