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Flu shot availability

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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:39 pm

Did I say, “Ferret”? No. Did I even say “You”? No. If what I said does not apply to you because what I said is not what you do then don’t worry about it. You are not the “they” I was talking about. What you do is different. Clearly, the shoe does not fit so just kick it across the room and dance on.

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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by coffeeguy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:31 pm

Let's see. Fastfox relies on Natural News, the single most notoriously batshit-crazy anti-science woo site on the web, while Ferret has "done her research" on Google and Youtube. Meanwhile the scientific and medical consensus regarding the safety of flu shots (and all other routine vaccinations) is just about exactly as settled as that showing that climate change is largely due to human activity, the earth is round and gravity is a thing.

Spewing this kind of B.S. has real-world consequences, as we've seen with measles outbreaks in areas where wealth anti-vaxxers also "do their research." Thousands of people in the U.S. die every year from the flu and the elderly are particularly vulnerable (which is why 67.5% of Americans get the flu shot each year, according to the CDC).

Meanwhile the actual info can be found on actual science sites, such as this one:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/flu-shots-here-we-go-again/

Lidia at Lakeside Medical (on the carretera in Ajijic next to Vinos Americas) has the better 4 strain shot in stock and I see LCS is offering flu shots at their next health fair on 11/17. 500 pesos at both places (sign up required at LCS, walk-in at Lakeside 12-4 on weekdays).


Last edited by coffeeguy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by ferret on Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:36 pm

The world is not round... and it's not flat... it's crooked. Follow the money.
And Ferret is a girl.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by coffeeguy on Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:44 pm

ferret wrote:The world is not round... and it's not flat... it's crooked. Follow the money.
And Ferret is a girl.

I corrected your gender in my post - thanks.

The "follow the money" canard is point #5 in the article I posted the link to. Here's a more detailed refutation of that particular bit of BS:

https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/the-myth-of-big-pharma-vaccine-profits-updated/

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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Fastfox on Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:14 pm

The concept is.....do what you are supposed to do and have wholesome nutrition versus the GMO, etc., to be healthy and you avoid many illnesses. Work on being healthy versus crisis management.

The other point is...choices in health care. Right now, doctors are not allowed to offer alternate solutions even if the patient wants it. Coffee Guy, stick with your beliefs if that is what you chose to do. The link you posted is just one person's opinion , which contradicts what I personally believe. That's all it is. I will never convince you, nor do I wish to try at this point, so just disregard my sources. Also, I used to be believe as you seem to. Life has shown me something different.

BTW, I don't rely on Natural News. I look at many more sources. That is just one.
A person should have control over what they chose to put in their bodies and how to treat themselves.

The fact is, whether or not one agrees, Big Pharma would really suffer, and all those jobs dedicated to the so-called cure for cancer for example. if people could fix their own cancers or avoid the illness altogether. there would be a huge financial loss for them. If remedies comes from herbs and natural god given sources, that can't be patented. Hugely inconvenient for making money.

40% of the population expected to have cancer. North Americans are the sickest people and the average person takes 10 prescriptions.....

Here is another source for those of you who are interested. Dr. Bergman has lots of videos you can watch.
http://vaccine-injury.info/john-bergman.cfm

Another good one is Dr. Axe (I believe that is just Dr. Axe.com) Lots of natural remedies offered there.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by gringal on Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:21 pm

Speaking of pharmaceuticals and making money, here's a quote from The People's Pharmacy news today, referring to generic drugs (which are supposed to save you money)

"Nonetheless, the past decade has seen prices rising rapidly on a large number of generic medications. For example, the price of the blood pressure pill captopril soared by 2,800 percent in one year alone, from 2012 to 2013 (Alpern et al, New England Journal of Medicine, Nov. 13, 2014). Albendazole, an old drug used to treat parasitic infections, went from $5.92 for a daily dose in 2010 to $119.58 per day in 2013.

Why are generic drug companies charging so darn much? Part of the reason is that they can. Unlike many other countries in the world, the United States does not exercise any control over drug pricing. Both brand name and generic drug companies get to set their own prices. That may be what the market will bear.

This makes sense for the makers of brand name drugs: they have marketing exclusivity. But generic drugs could presumably be made by any drug manufacturer. As a result, there should theoretically be price-lowering competition among them."
____________________________________________________
So heck yes, "follow the money". There is a reason why the U.S. is listed as around #24 in quality of care delivered (the WHO report) but is #1 in cost. Sick? Head for one of the top five, like France, Italy or Germany. Dream on. Very Happy

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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:46 pm

Luckily homeopathic medicines, supplements, herbs, and other “natural” cures are given away by altruistic people not interested in money. And, all the alternative publications and treatments are free, so no need to follow the money, because no one is making money there.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Fastfox on Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:59 pm

If you don't want to buy the homeopathic medicines, supplements and herbs, etc., you may opt to grow the herbs, etc., and make the remedies yourself.

There are books and on line sources where you can learn to do this. There is always going to be some cost in either buying ready made remedies, books, etc. For instance on Dr. Axe's site, there is much free information on how to make your own remedies.

Certainly if you don't eat everything you should, and most of us don't or can't consume that much, we opt for the convenience of purchasing supplements.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by ferret on Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:10 pm

I think the lines are clearly drawn here and no one side is going to convince the other side to step over.
It's probably more correct to say that certain things happening with your own health or that of a loved one put you firmly in one camp or the other.
All I can say is "Salud". Whatever works for you.
When you hit that wall where you're searching for alternatives, just remember that they do exist and don't give up.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by CanuckBob on Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:40 pm

In closing I would say the average lifespan today is significantly higher than it was 100 years ago. I don't believe that is due to herbs and natural concoction's albeit a lot of drugs are derived from plant sources.....

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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by ltollefs on Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:45 am

Lady Otter Latté wrote:Googling is not “doing research.” It’s reading.  

Excellent distinction. May also explain the billion dollar business that homeopathy has become. If nearly pure water is stronger than slightly less pure water, then why isn't pure water a sure means to overdose?
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:00 pm

“If you don't want to buy the homeopathic medicines, supplements and herbs, etc., you may opt to grow the herbs, etc., and make the remedies yourself.”

Oh, come on! Walk through any natural health place of business including doctors and look upon row after row, shelf after shelf of remedies and supplements. Consider the BILLIONS of dollars spent on this stuff per year as well as on the practitioners. If you honestly believe everyone could just mix up their magic for themselves you are delusional. This is an industry.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by ltollefs on Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:09 pm

Here's a primer for those looking for a quick, rational look at Homeopathy.

http://inscientioveritas.org/homeopathy-diluted-out-of-existence/

...a link found in the body of the text leads to a less succinct, but worthwhile read.

http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/homeopathy-as-nanoparticles/

...and no, water doesn't have memory.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Fastfox on Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:39 pm

Ok. Delusional person posting here again. Seems a bit of a harsh and somewhat personal criticism. I prefer to stick to the topic and not attack a person who does not agree with me.

Yes, of course, there are lots of products out there being produced and profit being made by firms selling natural remedies, etc. Nothing wrong with making profit if value is received in exchange. As in every industry, there will be some charlatans.

Not everyone is capable or willing to mix remedies. Yes. That is true. Some would rather pay for someone else to do it. It's a skill like any other.

Even convenience foods were created for this reason. Does that mean those who grow and sell fresh should not make money? I don't think so. We would rather not have to grow all our own food, although we can and do grow some herbs. Some hate cooking and have limited cooking abilities. There are convenience foods with good ingredients, and most with toxic chemicals. Our choice.

Personally, I would rather pay for items which are made with good natural ingredients instead of unnatural toxic ingredients which we were not intended to ingest. Again, this is just my opinion.

I just don't think God made any mistakes when he provided all for us to be healthy on this earth. It does say that in the Bible in several verses.


Last edited by Fastfox on Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Error corrections)
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by ltollefs on Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:49 pm

Fastfox wrote:

I just don't think God made any mistakes when he provided all for us to be healthy on this earth.

Really? How do you dismiss account for congenital diseases? Here's handy list to get you started...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by gringal on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:11 pm

ltollefs wrote:
Fastfox wrote:

I just don't think God made any mistakes when he provided all for us to be healthy on this earth.

Really? How do you dismiss account for congenital diseases? Here's handy list to get you started...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders

First, I commend Fastfox for maintaining a civil tone in responses. That's not always easy.

However, when you bring a God into the discussion, you're making an assertion based on your own beliefs, which not all share.  I think we should stick to whatever we can find with scientific evidence to back it up.


Last edited by gringal on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Fastfox on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:27 pm

My intend in participating in this topic was to offer some information I thought would be helpful.

Itollefs, if you want the answer to your question about congenital disorders, I suggest you research this topic. I have some ideas on how to respond, however, I am quite sure what I say will be dismissed. I am surely no expert in holistic medicine and health prevention, therefore, my ability to respond with scientific knowledge will be inadequate.

If you are sincerely interested in the answer, perhaps consider watching a few videos from Dr. John Bergman or some other holistic and functional physicians. Of course, if you watch with your mind already made up, then don't waste your time.

Gringal, thanks for the acknowledgement. I needed that! I really try to discipline myself to not go down to that level, however, I see that others, when they can't get agreement, resort to insults and personal attacks. Quite disheartening. Inasmuch as I would like to participate more often in this forum, I usually avoid it because this happens.

If I can even help one person with information, that would be a good thing.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by ltollefs on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:46 pm

Fastfox wrote:...with your mind already made up

There should be a rule to the effect that anyone using that hoary old cliche in a thread that is even tangentially related to actual science should be endlessly mocked. Sometimes sarcasm is the only possible response.

May your god(s) go with you.

n.b. list is not complete.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by slainte39 on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:52 pm

Fastfox wrote: with your mind already made up

And yours isn't??? lol!

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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by gringal on Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:52 pm

ltollefs wrote:
Fastfox wrote:...with your mind already made up

There should be a rule to the effect that anyone using that hoary old cliche in a thread that is even tangentially related to actual science should be endlessly mocked. Sometimes sarcasm is the only possible response.

On the other hand, the reason a cliche has "legs" is that it often contains a truth. In this case, it does. If you are 100% convinced of anything, whether it's a scientific theory or a religious belief........you'r wasting your time reading the opposing view. This is at the heart of the bitter cultural and political divide in the U.S.A. today.

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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by ltollefs on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:20 pm

So is it your opinion that the theory of evolution and the biblical creation stories (there's two) be held in equal esteem (for the record, I don't believe that you do)? If so, you should look at this.

http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Fastfox on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:40 pm

Lady Otter Latté wrote:Googling is not “doing research.” It’s reading. No one reads anymore. They’re all “researching.” And, this “research” makes them so smart they find simple, obvious solutions to complex problems that dumb doctors and scientists NEVER EVEN THOUGHT OF. Modern medicine is a complete fraud. Just drink some lemon juice with cayenne pepper in it, shove some CBD oil up your butt and your stage four cancer will disappear. They know this because they DID THEIR RESEARCH.

Some of us do read.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Fastfox on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:40 pm

ltollefs wrote:So is it your opinion that the theory of evolution and the biblical creation stories (there's two) be held in equal esteem (for the record, I don't believe that you do)? If so, you should look at this.

http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm

Time to start a new thread.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by Trailrunner on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:47 pm

LOL y'all been pretty entertaining.
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by ltollefs on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:50 pm

I agree. May I propose a topic: Why does hemoglobin prefer carbon monoxide to oxygen and accept it more than 200 times more readily than it accepts oxygen, resulting in easily avoidable death? Looks to me like a mistake?. ...and what's that recurrent laryngeal nerve all about?


Last edited by ltollefs on Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : dioxide out, monoxide in.)
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Re: Flu shot availability

Post by ferret on Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:06 pm

Trailrunner wrote:LOL y'all been pretty entertaining.

Lots of stuff that is mainstream now was pretty entertaining in the past for lots of people. Madame Curie and Lister are a couple of names that pop into my head. And who was it that used to say that the world was flat... oh yeah, everybody. Heart transplant? No way. Transfusion? Blasphemy!
Science does have a way of catching up with proof. I always remember my home room science teacher in Grade 7. Around the classroom at the top of the wall, in giant letters, was written:
The difficult we do at once... The impossible takes a little longer
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Re: Flu shot availability

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