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Ilox Update

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Ilox Update

Post by tkessler2 on Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:56 pm

Hi Everyone,

Here's an update on the Ilox situation. Things are going well, but there have been some communications issues. Email in particular may sometimes bounce or not be received. In some cases, people have complained of no response but no signup record has been registered.

- We are at 480 pledges. Of those 100 have received contracts and completed payment or in the process of doing so.  If you have not pledged and wish to do so, here's the link to the signup form: https://goo.gl/2kHdeE  and the FAQ:   https://goo.gl/CsE574

- The remaining 380 are a mixture of cases . Some replied to Ilox reconfirmation requests with a barrage of questions, with incomplete or missing data, bounced emails, have missing signup entries, or sent responses that have not been received. Its all over the map, Ilox will go through these one by one and contact you individually. Thanks for your patience while they work through this. They have three people assigned to working through the backlog.

- If you responded to the Ilox reconfirmation request mail, and have not received a response, please resend it to info@mail.tvrey.com.mx. Make sure it includes a legible copy of your official ID, proof of domicile, plan election, and whether your development receives services via undergrounds ducts or uses CFE poles.

Feel free to copy or message me and I'll follow up too. If you sent in this information, you should receive back from ILOX your personalized contracts and a Bancomer payment reference number.

BR,
Tom Kessler

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by tkessler2 on Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:45 pm

All, signups for the Ilox Fiber Optic Internet project are going  well.  Here is a link to updated instructions:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HyMYOrsTv7vPYnTISRI3w8NrVcu6fL22P92dwyxG8UY/edit

Please consider signing up! 

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:40 am

That "Triple 250" plan they recommend requires an upfront payment of $14,748 pesos, which is $1229 a month and you're stuck paying it for a year. In other words, they want hundreds of people to provide them with a loan on which they haven't offered to pay interest. Try getting a bank to do that. When I lend money, I expect some financial compensation from the debtor.

I'll stick with the snail-like speed I'm getting until the provider we now have decides to up the facilities for a more reasonable monthly price than Ilox is asking.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by tkessler2 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:03 am

Gringai,

You are far far off the mark. Ilox is only asking that a few hundred people show enough interest to raise a small percentage of the financial investment necessary to build an extension of their existing fiber optic network which transits through Jocotepec. Ilox is a federally licensed carrier whose multimillion dollar concession is on the line guaranteeing the project or refund of the monies. You are entitled to your opinion and welcome to wait to see if we can get enough signups to trigger the buildout. In which case your service would start much much later. They are not recommending the Triple 250 package. I am , to support the financial goal. If you don-t wish to pay that, you can sign up for the double 50 for half that amount. Ilox added that offering to help, not hurt the campaign. You don't exactly see Telmex falling over themselves to provide Fiber optics around Lakeside do you ?

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:26 am

tkessler2:
I was quoting the suggestion from "Ilox team" document. Are you from the company?

You have not addressed my question, which is: why are they not getting the needed funds from a normal money lender, instead of asking potential customers to give them a no-interest loan? No other financial incentive is offered. This is not a normal way to do business.

Those who moved here either did or should have done their research regarding available speeds, especially if they were in a situation where they "needed" speed to do business. Had they moved to Guadalajara instead, they would have been accommodated. People had choices.
I don't think I'm "far, far off the mark". I think you are avoiding the question.


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Re: Ilox Update

Post by solajijic on Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:22 pm

Ilox is a federally licensed carrier whose multimillion dollar concession is on the line guaranteeing the project or refund of the monies.

So they are asking the community to raise almost $15,000 pesos per household for the service so they can build out their system all over the area. I am with Gringal on this one.

Do they need 500? which would raise $10,500,000 pesos or at 18.5 $568,000 US dollars to bring fiber optics all over the various neighborhoods that have subscription houses in them.

I am not buying it. If it was viable they'd have traditional financing available to them.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by tkessler2 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:18 pm

Gringai and Solajijic,

- Ilox has already built a high speed fiber ring that provides business grade Internet services in central Mexico. The ring goes from Guadalajara to Queretaro and returns around the south side of Lake Chapala through Jocotepec.

- Financing is not the issue. Ilox 5 year capital spending plan was entirely directed towards more lucrative business services in central Mexico. Ilox Guadalajara office will not even contract residential service because the infrastructure is complicated and the service is not as profitable.

- Ilox turned up their first GPON fiber to the home network in Zamora where it is operating very well. But they are not getting rich on it.

- Ilox did not ask to come to Ajijic. Our group asked them to consider building an extension from Joco to Chapala. A large, several hundred K investment. They told us we'll consider it but we don't want another Zamora. We want to see sufficient interest from a critical mas of qualified customers. Namely, 200 willing to prepay one year of the Triple 50 package. Today, we're over halfway paid in. Over 500 have pledged. Now its just a question of getting the rest closed. The prepaids will turn up within 6 mo of the project start date, we're hoping that will be by Mid May at this rate. Ilox will then open an office and begin regular sign ups. Those folks should have service by early 2019.

I have no business or financial relationship with Ilox . But I am certainly part of the team working with them to get this done. Won't you help me? Thanks. Tom Kessler




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Re: Ilox Update

Post by solajijic on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:37 pm

Nice explanation. With an expat audience here I don't think they'd have the same result they saw in Zamora. Any first month MBA can give then the analysis on risk v. reward in serving a captive audience that is clamoring and used to having super speeds with the discretionary income to meet their pricing. They have a 5 year spending plan and good businesses adapt their plans and reroute resources when lucrative opportunities arise.

Good luck I hope the other half of your subscribers come thru.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:43 pm

This is about as legitimate way to do business as a "Go Fund Me" page.

No matter how many excuses people come up with, it still is not a normal business practice.  It is one thing to ask people to speak up if they are interested.  At that point, a "normal" business practice would be to go to a money lender or bank and get the necessary funds, using the interest list to bolster your chances of getting a loan ON WHICH YOU WOULD PAY INTEREST.  I am putting that phrase in bold letters since this is what the whole scheme is about if we're getting real:  ILOX getting an interest free loan from the people who are potential customers.  If people weren't so embarrassingly hungry to have big city service while they also get to have the "ambiance" of a quaint little outpost in Mexico, nobody would be willing to go for this.

I'm not accusing you personally of this, but especially on TOB, there are many 'newbies' expecting to have everything they had NOB, such as effective zoning laws, well maintained streets with no potholes, enforcement of noise regulations, no politicians or police "on the take"etc.  This, plus Telmex offering the kind of service they offer in cities like Guadalajara.  

However, if you find this an acceptable way to do business yourself, and if you can convince enough other people to give Ilox an interest free loan with no other financial incentives, by all means go for it.


Last edited by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by SunFan on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:46 pm

I see all the cautious folks sitting on the sidelines not willing to initiate any competition to TelMex. It seems all but a handful of folks Lakeside must be happy with TelMex services.

If you're getting reasonable but not first world internet speeds from TelMex I can understand why one wouldn't care to sign up.

But if you're not, and can afford it, why not make the investment. Ilox is not some fly-by-night real estate developer.

Remember Shaw disappears in a couple of years. Will TelMex provide you the type of speed and reliability to stream your movies and programs? I've been hearing TelMex promises of Fiber at lakeside for the six years I've been down here.

Will the cautious be the first in line to sign up for Ilox services once the fiber is strung for the initial adopters?

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:51 pm

SunFan wrote:I see all the cautious folks sitting on the sidelines not willing to initiate any competition to TelMex. It seems all but a handful of folks Lakeside must be happy with TelMex services.

If you're getting reasonable but not first world internet speeds from TelMex I can understand why one wouldn't care to sign up.

But if you're not, and can afford it, why not make the investment. Ilox is not some fly-by-night real estate developer.

Remember Shaw disappears in a couple of years. Will TelMex provide you the type of speed and reliability to stream your movies and programs? I've been hearing TelMex promises of Fiber at lakeside for the six years I've been down here.

Will the cautious be the first in line to sign up for Ilox services once the fiber is strung for the initial adopters?

SunFan

Can I assume that you are one of the people willing to give Ilox an interest free loan, too?

If and when they have made the service a reality, I will consider whether the prices are worth it to me. At present, the Telmex service I have in my centrally located residence is slow, but sufficient for my needs..

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by CanuckBob on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:14 pm

Paying in advance for a product or service isn't unusual at all. I put down a $10K deposit on a vehicle that didn't arrive for 6 months and I know they collect money in advance for condos and what not. No interest paid on that either. VRBO and similar booking services collect the money as soon as someone books yet don't pay out until they arrive...

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:21 pm

CanuckBob wrote:Paying in advance for a product or service isn't unusual at all. I put down a $10K deposit on a vehicle that didn't arrive for 6 months and I know they collect money in advance for condos and what not. No interest paid on that either. VRBO and similar booking services collect the money as soon as someone books yet don't pay out until they arrive...

You have a point, but the difference is that the product on which you are putting a deposit already exists. For instance, you are not giving the auto manufacturer an interest free loan to build his factory. However, if you're willing to do that, it's your money.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by CanuckBob on Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:49 pm

You are not familiar with presales for condos? I've seen people giving vast sums before they even break ground.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by slainte39 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:55 pm

It's called putting some skin in the game for a service that a big company isn't exactly living and dying for.
It's not like you are forward financing some "start up" enterprise.

Simple....pass and go to the back of the line.

I remember when ranchers in the Sand Hills of Nebraska, USA, paid big bucks. in advance,  to get telephone lines installed by Northwestern Bell, when the company had plenty of cash on hand, but could have cared less about that "token" business.
I think people are looking for a "boogeyman" here without really caring if this venture happens or not.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:09 pm

CanuckBob wrote:You are not familiar with presales for condos? I've seen people giving vast sums before they even break ground.

Yes, I remember Trump was associated with one of those on the coast. The people who invested lost all their money, didn't they? There have been others with the same story. I don't know about others, but I'd want to see an actual condo before investing. YMMV of course.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:22 pm

slainte39 wrote:It's called putting some skin in the game for a service that a big company isn't exactly living and dying for.
It's not like you are forward financing some "start up" enterprise.

Simple....pass and go to the back of the line.

I remember when ranchers in the Sand Hills of Nebraska, USA, paid big bucks. in advance,  to get telephone lines installed by Northwestern Bell, when the company had plenty of cash on hand, but could have cared less about that "token" business.
I think people are looking for a "boogeyman" here without really caring if this venture happens or not.

I don't see a "boogeyman" at all.  I see a company that, if it's the kind of stable enterprise its touted as being, is saving itself paying interest on a normal bank loan to expand their business. I think it's a very ingenious plan, to tell the truth.  Wish I could have been able to pull that one when I was in business in the States!  Apparently, Northwestern Bell managed it in Nebraska. Good for them.

The "skin in the game" is you putting yours in their game, but it's your skin.  I'm waiting for all you enthusiasts to help finance this while I keep my money in an interest bearing account, and I won't mind a bit being at the end of the line. Cheers!
Beer

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by slainte39 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:38 pm

There you go.....matter settled. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  
Maybe they don't have to borrow either, even excluding presales and if they have cash on hand, they aren't exactly earning big pesos on the interest on that cash.

( I didn't give you a Thumbs down , that was someone else.  I just said what I said, that's all)

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:07 pm

slainte39 wrote:There you go.....matter settled. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy  
Maybe they don't have to borrow either, even excluding presales and if they have cash on hand, they aren't exactly earning big pesos on the interest on that cash.

( I didn't give you a Thumbs down , that was someone else.  I just said what I said, that's all)

I know that. You're not a petty kind of guy, from what I've seen.

Here's my tightwad reasoning about it: If I handed them the upfront money, I'd be out the interest, but when and if they got up and running, I would pay no more than the going rate per month anyway. So yeah, I'd be way behind the upfront contributors in getting service, but no big deal here. It's not like the ranchers who didn't have ANY service. We have Telmex, even though it's as speedy as a banana slug climbing up a redwood tree.


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Re: Ilox Update

Post by tkessler2 on Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:09 pm

I don't know why all this emphasis on it being a loan. What loan? They take a ramp up of payments for maybe 3 months, then turn around and have to spend several times that in Capex. Another comments about if that had done market studies they'd know the purchasing power was here. Correct, the purchasing power is here. A lot of it is behind gated communities with underground services ducts that Telmex has tied up and will/can not share with any other service provider. Those communities will have to adjust their infrastructure - we don't know how many will yet. For all these reasons, they asked that a reasonable quantity show some skin in the game. Really just prudent business practice on their side. All aboard please. If you are a real estate stakeholder at Lakeside, you shouldn't have to think too hard about what high speed fiber will do to the property values of the homes that have it.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by CanuckBob on Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:27 pm

I guess when I bought concert tickets in advance I was "loaning" the money to the promoter.......there is a huge list of things that people pay for in advance and run a risk that they won't get what they paid for. I don't get this "loan" perception either.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by gringal on Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:20 pm

CanuckBob wrote:I guess when I bought concert tickets in advance I was "loaning" the money to the promoter.......there is a huge list of things that people pay for in advance and run a risk that they won't get what they paid for. I don't get this "loan" perception either.

If it's hard to get that handing over 10,000 pesos to a business entity for a years service that does not yet exist in order to enable them to create such a service is not a loan, then there's no point in a further discussion of it. I'm guessing that those who don't get it have already signed up...and paid up. May this be everything you hoped for. Bye.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by RVGRINGO on Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:07 am

It appears that the prepayment scheme is designed to encourage Ilox to provide a service outside of their normal business model. Ilox cannot be expected to determine the physical access to various properties, and will rely on the customer to determine that, before investing. It also appears that the possibility of Ilox service would not exist, had not Mr. Kessler taken the initiative to propose the existing approach for fiber-optic service in the area. Is there a risk that there will not be sufficient subscribers to cause Ilox to perform? Of course. Is there a risk that monies paid might never be refunded? Always the case in Mexico. Is there the possibility of high speed, reliable fiber-optic service? YES!

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by tkessler2 on Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:29 am

RVGringo, thanks for the kind words, you are correct.  Their "normal" business model has gravitated towards business service.  That is not to say they don't do residential.   They provide legacy cable TV service in communities all around the lake, and they did do residential fiber in Zamora.    GPON fiber is much more reliable than coaxial cable.  So it can be attractive for the provider too, if you're offering it an area where there's enough density and purchasing power.  Telmex, for their part, didn't think Lakeside, even with its Gringo population warranted service.  Now this is everyone's chance to show them otherwise.

Re: the deposit risk.   Llittle to worry about there.  Suppose Movistar or AT&T offered a capital project based on prepaids, which is actually common in telecom (e.g. Telmex will give fiber to the new hospitals).   Would you worry about getting your deposit back?   Ilox is not as big as AT&T, but they are a federally licensed carrier operating under the same rules, have been in business 23 years, and are very solvent.  They also have the lowest complaint record in the industry..Check that out here:  http://www.laprensa.mx/notas.asp?id=498105   Escrow agreements and the additional expense are not standard practice in this space, because already heavily regulated.

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Re: Ilox Update

Post by Lady Otter Latté on Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:38 pm

For people who really want or need high speed internet and have the cash to put up front this is as good as it is going to get around here. Take it or leave it. For those of us on leaner budgets who would like faster internet but get along okay as it is this offer is not appealing or possible. I envy people who can afford to help shepherd this service in and wouldn’t miss the pesos if it should fall apart for whatever reason. Depending on the eventual monthly cost I may happily get to the end of the line someday. But, I can not afford a buy in.
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